Friday, April 28, 2000

Mark Tripp - Combatives 3 (Level of Force)



Combatives 3

You are in the Judo Q&A Forum:
Subject: Combatives 3
From: MTripp
Date: 26-Apr-00 | 07:01 AM

We not get to a very important point in understanding combatives. In another post someone brought up the level of force issue. I want to deal with that here...

There are three types of combative training;

  • Police/Security/Correction Officer
  • Military
  • Civilian
The first two are specialised subjects we will get to. But right now I want to deal with the last one.

Level of force is something that trained officers mess up all the time. It also operates under the idea that you have force options (hand, stick, spray, gun, etc) to draw from. This is not always the case with civilians. Also it assumes you have back up there or on the way; this is almost NEVER the case with civilians.

Clearly the ONLY way to train civilians is to avoid and evade problems at all costs. BUT, if that fails then they are going to fight with brutal kill or be killed combative techniques.

It is NOT your job to get your drunken Uncle George out of the party. "Come along holds" are nothing more than standing submission holds and people who resist WILL get broken bones. This is why LAPD banned body holds years ago (and one of the many factors that led to the Rodney King problem).

It IS your job to avoid and evade problems. To that end we have created the 4 rules. These are not the four suggestions or the four it would be nice if you did this.

If you are going to carry PPD's and train in real combatives; then you WILL follow the four rules or sooner or later you WILL go to jail or be sued. The choice is yours.

The four rules:

  1. I will not drink to excess and I will avoid ALL persons and places where people will be drinking to excess.
    Note: Watch cops sometime and notice how many people are drunk out of their mind and in trouble.
  2. I will not use illegal drugs and I will avoid ALL persons and places where people are using them or they are to be found.
    Note: We just had a murder up here because one druggie told a druggie buddy that his grandparents had money and no guns in the house. Druggie #2 went there and beat everyone to death with a hammer.
  3. I will avoid ALL ilicit sexual contact of ANY nature.
    Note: I am not just talking about strip clubs (that is covered in #1). I mean leave other peoples wives, husbands, girlfriends, ALONE. Stay away from hookers (both 1 and 2 are always around hookers).
  4. Stay out of the danger zone
Note: This means buckle your seat belt; eat right; don't speed; mind your own business; etc. In other words, do what is SAFE not what is DANGEROUS.

Now; READ THEM AGAIN! Now, one more time.

OK, ask yourself this. How much stuff on Cops would be avoided if people followed the 4 rules?

More importantly; following the 4 rules means you do NOT have to worry about level of force! That is the freedom it gives you!

Think about it; if someone lays hands on me; and I follow the four rules; what could it be other than a violent personal assault? It won't be a drunk in a bar (rule 1) or a jealous husband (rule 3). You can react with violent force as quickly as you can because you do not have to think about the situation.

"The wise man is sorry before rather than after. The man who is sorry before builds his life. The man who is sorry after spends all his time repairing it."

Next; selection of combative techniques.

Subject: RE: INFO
From: submission studen
Date: 26-Apr-00 | 08:54 AM

Subject: RE: INFO
From: Chzog
Date: 26-Apr-00 | 10:04 AM

Subject: RE: INFO
From: Absolute Storm
Date: 26-Apr-00 | 10:45 AM
I think that's a very sensible list, even if you're not interested in martial arts. Nevetheless, going out with my friends and having alot to drink is one of the best ways we student-types can have fun, meet girls etc. Although I rarely get very drunk, my friends often do. When trouble breaks out, I try to make sure I can restrain my friends or their aggressors without anyone getting hurt. I think this sort of thing is still a useful skill to have. (Ususally, I pin the person in question with a scarf hold).

Subject: RE: INFO
From: sundevil
Date: 26-Apr-00 | 11:35 AM
I don't really want to cause trouble on your Q&A, but it is interesting to see your opinion that submission holds can break bones. I read in a law enforcement magazine where a San Diego Police Officer put a pain/compliance hold on a protestor and broke his arm in two places. Obviously, he was sued. Great post, by the way. You can be accused of blaming the victim for pointing out such obvious truths, but the fact is, even in the U.S., with its high crime rate, you are not very likely to be the victim of a violent crime if you follow those simple rules.

Subject: RE: INFO
From: VinceB
Date: 26-Apr-00 | 01:26 PM
Handy advice. The trunkated version I got from Jimmy Woo. "You don't want to fight? Don't go to bars." And he's been right. Never had any altercations till I started working the door in college for extra cash. Broke rule #1 and yep, there's fighting. It's much easier to have keg in the house.... regards, VinceB

Subject: RE: INFO
From: Yeah
Date: 26-Apr-00 | 01:37 PM
Great Point Mr. Tripp, but what about Family reunions :)

Subject: RE: INFO
From: beau
Date: 26-Apr-00 | 02:37 PM
just great, no alchohol, drugs or hookers, 3 of my favorite things in life :) (j/k)

Subject: RE: INFO
From: croft
Date: 26-Apr-00 | 03:04 PM
Again, this series should be archieved so that it can be viewed in it's entirety even after it has slipped off the page. =^..^=

Subject: RE: INFO
From: MTripp
Date: 26-Apr-00 | 05:04 PM
Well... I have told the story before that I was asked to remove an "unruley" person from my late brothers wedding... I am still thought of as a jerk over that one. I don't go ANYWHERE in violation of the four rules. Period. Others may do as they wish.

Subject: RE: INFO
From: SSonnon
Date: 26-Apr-00 | 05:07 PM
Beautiful stated Mark.

Subject: RE: INFO
From: SSonnon
Date: 26-Apr-00 | 05:08 PM
or how about beautifulLY stated. (sheesh, all those yrs at the uni wasted)

Subject: RE: INFO
From: Absolute Storm
Date: 26-Apr-00 | 05:56 PM
LOL! I don't know the story about you at the wedding. Please tell.

Subject: RE: INFO
From: MTripp
Date: 26-Apr-00 | 07:34 PM
Oh man.... One of the women in the bridal party had a VERY jealous boyfriend. As you know the bridal party sits up front with the "pairs" of people. The boyfriend was VERY upset that HIS girl wasn't sitting with him and was making problems at the back of the room. I was asked to solve the problem. BIG ERROR!!!! In hindsight I should have said "Tell her to tell him to sit down or leave"; but of course I did not. Like a jerk I think this guy just doesn't know anyone and I invite him to sit with my guys... I get called everything but a nice white boy... I tell him to leave... He tells me what to do to myself (which if I could would solve a lot of problems). I tell him again to leave... He repeats the suggestion about an inch from my face. Soooooooo...... I remove him from the church. In the process he gets a broken arm; several serious bruses, and we break a glass door I shove his face through... The first one didn't break. Gene LeBell loves this story. It was 15 years ago and I am STILL a jerk in everyones eyes because of it.

Subject: RE: INFO
From: Chzog
Date: 26-Apr-00 | 10:26 PM
Cause you are a jerk =P

Subject: RE: INFO
From: Chzog
Date: 26-Apr-00 | 10:27 PM
But we love you anyway!! =)

Subject: RE: INFO
From: Absolute Storm
Date: 27-Apr-00 | 04:39 AM
That makes you a hero in my opinion. It has long been an ambition of mine to shove someone's head through a plate glass window. To do it in a church, at a wedding makes it all the more special. ( : Great story anyway.

Subject: RE: INFO
From: MTripp
Date: 27-Apr-00 | 08:18 AM
Oh yes; THEY thought I was a hero all right....

Subject: RE: INFO
From: Tony Bananas
Date: 27-Apr-00 | 11:44 AM
can you imagine the grandfolks sitting there watching this burly man toss a youngin' around at their precious lil' granddaughter's wedding? i would love to see some video footage of you smashing his noggin into, not one, but TWO glass doors! lmao! t

Subject: RE: INFO
From: MTripp
Date: 27-Apr-00 | 11:54 AM
No no; the first door didn't break; but the second door did. Actually this guy was about 23 and a "tough guy". He just picked a fight WAY out of his league. BUT; when all is said and done; I'M the one people think is the A-hole.

Subject: RE: INFO
From: Absolute Storm
Date: 27-Apr-00 | 01:14 PM
Because of this incident, or just generally? ; )

Subject: RE: INFO
From: MTripp
Date: 27-Apr-00 | 01:43 PM
In general; but the above is used as an example often.

Subject: RE: INFO
From: Absolute Storm
Date: 27-Apr-00 | 03:15 PM

Subject: RE: INFO
Date: 27-Apr-00 | 10:59 PM
Excellent Post! Jim Olsen

Subject: RE: INFO
From: Sothy
Date: 28-Apr-00 | 04:24 AM
thanks, great set of posts

For other Mark Tripp entries, please check out:

NOTE: Posted as-of Apr 28, 2000 on Nov 22, 2013 to mirror my old archives -



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