Thursday, December 05, 2002

De La Hoya vs Vargas: The Jab thread started by Rastus

NOTE: I had this thread archived to my 2nd Tripod site ages ago. Tripod took down my second archives. In time, I will be adding to this blog some of the info that was up there. My thanks to someholdsbarred and waise pairasta for their help.


From: Rastus
Date: 22-Sep-02 01:51 PM
Edited:22-Sep-02 01:57 PM, Edited:22-Sep-02 01:53 PM

Did anyone notice on the De La Hoya/Vargas fight, how Oscars win WAS A CONSEQUENCE OF HIS ESTABLISHING HIS JAB?

He didn't outmuscle Vargas, didn't out bomb him...he outjabbed him. Once this jab was established, it ushered in the bombs.

This fight is a great study for people who don't believe the critical importance of the jab in boxing, or who accept the point without implementing the punch.

From: KS
Date: 22-Sep-02 07:36 PM

Rastus I agree, but isn't Dela hoya's jab stronger than most--after all he is a natural southpaw, so his jab and hook are his most powerful weapons.

From: dolemite_112
Date: 22-Sep-02 09:40 PM
Edited:22-Sep-02 09:40 PM

Rastus! I've been usin the jab more in my mma situations to bring the guy in, then havin my way, lovin it.


From: Rastus
Date: 22-Sep-02 11:23 PM


His jabs are strong, no doubt...but one can also develop a devistating jab without being a converted southpaw. Yes, they are probably more powerful than most. I'm telling you guys, establishing a jab is a devistating advantage.


EXCELLENT!!! So that strategy's working? F*ck, I always thought it would!

From: ron den otter
Date: 23-Sep-02 12:35 PM

Rastus, before the fight, a lot of people singled out DLH's superior jab as one of the best reasons why DLH would beat Vargas.

From: Rastus
Date: 23-Sep-02 02:28 PM

interesting, ron. I would have agreed with them.

I want you all to imagine something (and for those who've experienced it, you'll know what I mean) - you're boxing an opponent who keeps pop...POP POP!...popping you with a jab...keeping you at the end of his punches, forcing you to throw heavy punches from the outside, which he always seems to duck under or're nose is bleeding, you're head is hurting, you're frustrated, then you start getting caught with big punches AFTER being blinded and disoriented in that flash.

It's disheartening and debilitating, and it's something Vargas experienced first hand with De La Hoya.

From: JRS3
Date: 23-Sep-02 03:35 PM

Rastus, what did you think of Oscar's shoulder roll?

From: Rastus
Date: 23-Sep-02 07:21 PM

He seems to be comfortable using it, and it's been effective for him. What I don't like about it is that it can put one out of position to attack.

If it's working for him though, as it appears to be, and he can integrate an offense with it, as well as the capacity to just make an opponent miss, more power to him.

From: billy jee
Date: 24-Sep-02 11:00 PM

the jab saved lennox from the potentials of a massacre. Hoya is a skilled technician, shoulder rolling, feints, slick jabs on 1/2 beat etc,hi lo hi combos, beautiful artistry. DLH's new style is called the peek a boo lead hand low other hand by face, chin and shoulder. He’s definatly getting used to it. he seemed to get walloped a considerable amount in the vargas fight. I think he is most deadly on his toes, footwork and a determining factor of an altercation of two equally skilled opponents is BROKEN Rhythym.. DLH is nice with the hands.

From: Rastus
Date: 25-Sep-02 12:54 AM

good observations, billy jee. I agree.

Some people say, "why jab to the body? Doesn't hurt him..."

It does. Makes him feel vulnerable and take him a little bit out of his game.

Jabbing to the body is a good way into a man's head.

From: JRS3
Date: 25-Sep-02 09:19 AM

Cool thread. TTT.

From: GT99
Date: 25-Sep-02 09:48 AM

Its true, the jab is the most important punch in Boxing....always has been and always will be, Alot of todays fighters have neglected the jab, but I can see the trend coming back, the jab is the one punch that can dominate a fight.....DLH has proved what the jab can do....look at Forrest using the jab to dominate Mosley.

I fight as a heavyweight and I am one of the shorter guys at 5'9, but even against a tall opponent, I still use the jab alot.....maybe not as much, but it is the punch that gets things going....whether it is to set up another punch or if it is used to get in close

As far as shoulder rolls go.....I think Oscar is naturally good and can use anything he learns, however I believe he is much better at just boxing like he used to, the Mayweather defence is great and very effective but I think you need to learn it from the beginning, Oscar gets hit more now....sure some shots are not really landing but alot are and the ones that dont land are still annoying you....they scrape alot of the times and your shoulders will look like they took a beating.

From: ron den otter
Date: 25-Sep-02 11:02 AM

Oddly enough, during the first round, Tyson was able to land a number of jabs against Lewis. It was downhill from there, however,...

From: Rastus
Date: 25-Sep-02 01:31 PM


Its true, the jab is the most important punch in Boxing

That simply can't be stated enough times. I state this in so many of my threads, I make a broken record sound unpredictable.

look at Forrest using the jab to dominate Mosley.

Absolutely! IMO the prime reason Mosely lost is that he was dominated by Forrest's jab. Mosely would leap into these attacks, which Forest was well trained to counter.

maybe not as much, but it is the punch that gets things going....whether it is to set up another punch or if it is used to get in close

It's the facilitator...the oil in the engine. When the jab's working, everything else seems to be so much more smooth and easy.

The one thing I like about Oscar's shoulder roll is mental - it allows him, apparently, to enjoy boxing more. The benefits of that enjoyment may be sharper timing, more dedication and longevity. He does seem to get hit more and I think, though a shoulder roll can block a punch, or cause it to glance off, it leaves one slightly out of position.

NOTE: posted to the Underground's Boxing forum. Posted Dec 8, 2008 and backdated to Dec 5, 2002 to mirror my old archives

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