Friday, June 23, 2000

Story of Cus D'Amato and fear vs. knife expert

Story of Cus D'Amato and fear vs. knife expert

NOTE: No copyright infringement intended.

Subject: Cus D'Amato and fear vs. knife expert
From: Stickgrappler
Date: 15-Oct-99 | 05:26 PM

I typed this up from BAD INTENTIONS: THE MIKE TYSON STORY by Peter Heller. I posted this to the knife videos thread, but figured this may be good for non-knife lovers. Not quite knifefighting, but a little of fear, fear management, and a boxer's approach to the knife. Enjoy!

---------

At the same time that Babe Ruth was slugging home runs on the other side of the Bronx in the new Yankee Stadium, the young Cus D’Amato was learning valuable lessons about fear and cowardice, toughness and courage and survival on the streets, lessons he would later incorporate in the unique philosophy of life and boxing which he imparted to his fighters. One lesson that became familiar to his disciples was that the fear of something is usually worse than the reality, a lesson he expounded using an example from his own life. He would describe how a guy from another neighborhood, who had a reputation as one of the best knife fighters on the streets of the Bronx, was swaggering around Cus’s own patch and intimidating his pals. One day the hoodlum challenged each of them to a knife fight. Everyone was afraid and no one would accept the challenge. Once his dominance was established, the challenger began insulting and humiliating them until he’d had his fill, and then left. Word of this reached Cus that evening. He was so angered that he sought out the antagonist and challenged him to a fist fight. The reply was no; instead, D’Amato was offered the opportunity to avenge the honor of his friends in a knife fight. The foolhardy Cus accepted. It was agreed the two would meet at an abandoned building at seven the next morning, alone. There would be no witnesses in case one of them ended up dead. On his way home, Cus couldn’t help but think it was most likely to be him. Fear gripped him as it never had before. He hadn’t the slightest idea how to wield a knife in a fight, yet here he was about to face an expert. When he was finally able to control his fear, he thought up an idea that would at least give him a chance. Maybe he didn’t know about knife fighting, but he did know about boxing, about using his fists. He found an ice pick, carved the handle down so it would fit in his closed palm, with the blade extending out between his middle and ring fingers. He than practiced as if he were boxing, only now, at the end of his fist, was a deadly blade as he jabbed the air.


In the few hours that remained until dawn, he tried unsuccessfully to sleep. He then headed for the empty warehouse where the fight was to take place, getting there early in order to check out the surroundings and prepare himself for his adversary. He taped the ice pick inside his fist, made sure the blade protruded far enough and wrapped a jacket around his forearm for protection. Then he waited. When the fear built up too much and threatened to overwhelm him, he danced around, practicing his technique. He learned that motion relieves tension. The minutes passed. Seven o’clock cam and went, and the knife fighter had still not appeared. D’Amato felt relieved, but then checked himself. If he began to wind down and his opponent suddenly materialized, he knew his resolve to fight might be weakened. Finally, when more than an hour had passed, Cus realized that fear must have got the better of the knife fighter. He wasn’t going to appear. Cus went home, a hero to his friends. The knife fighter never showed himself again. Cus knew he had won a victory, not only over his adversary, but over himself. He had faced his fear and refused to allow it get the better of him.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: striker18
Date: 15-Oct-99 | 05:34 PM

Great story!


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: krept
Date: 15-Oct-99 | 05:36 PM

good story, thanks


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Horatius
Date: 15-Oct-99 | 05:36 PM

EXCELLENT POST!!!


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: grandpab
Date: 15-Oct-99 | 05:41 PM

Great story, thanks for posting it.

Grandpab


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: pit
Date: 15-Oct-99 | 05:42 PM

Cus was the man. Great story.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Tatanka
Date: 15-Oct-99 | 05:44 PM

Cus is D'man.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


NOTE: Posted 8/12/2014 and backdated to 6/23/2000 to mirror my old archives.

Wednesday, June 21, 2000

Mark Tripp - Combatives 11 (Women's Self-defense)

Mark Tripp's Combatives 11

You are in the Judo forum

Subject: Combatives 11
From: MTripp
Date: 22-May-00 | 07:55 AM

I will be clinical here. But I REALLY wish I had a women instructor who would teach this part to the women cause I sure get red when I have to...

There are only three ways a woman can be raped. Forced oral. Forced intercourse man on top. Forced intercourse man behind.

I understand you can get creative about intercourse up against the wall and stuff; but that requires a willing partner. Let's keep it basic.

Core skill here is gripping strength; kicking from the ground and kicking to stand up (aka butt scoot, Gracie get-up, or ground get-up); chin jab/tiger claw; and elbows.

But the most IMPORTANK skill in dealing with a rape attempt is to shift the attackers focus from beating you into submission to get what he wants and make him believe you are going to give him EXACTLY what he wants. This is called playing porn star!

Let me be clear; I do NOT beleive it is EVER a good idea to take a fighting stance and scream NO as so many silly self-defense programs for women teach. What you have just done is TELL your attacker what is comming. This is just wrong.

Better to convince him you are not going to fight! You are NOT going to let him do anything to YOU either, but let's keep that between US for now! Tell him he is cute. Ask him about his dick (use the word). Tell him you've always wanted to do it in a parking lot, or an elevator, or whatever Do NOT get in his car or go into an alley. Distract him with all the sex talk he hears on those movies he watches. Make him think he has found his dream victim!

All the time you are looking for your BEST shot to make this sorry piece of crap wish he had NEVER been born.

An example of why this works best is; if you just grab for his groin you could miss; or find out he has a cup on. Now he is enraged and it will be that much harder to finish him. BUT, if you "feel around" as you tell him how hot you are; you will get your hand right on the target (the testies not the penius); or find out if there is a cup there and change your attacking plan.

Lets deal with them in order.

Forced Oral

Simple concept. Woman can close a #2 gripper (195 lbs of crushing force); Man wants to put private parts near there. Even without hands we have that "Last house on the Left" technique; also done on "OZ" last season (bite it off).

Here the person plays along with the attacker; even helping him with his pants. Once you see the testies; CRUSH THEM. Assuming you are on your knees here; roll to your left or right hip and begin the ground kicking/kick to get up drill.

(more)


Subject: RE: INFO
From: MTripp
Date: 22-May-00 | 07:55 AM

Intercourse - Man on Top.

First, he has to get your clothes off. This is a good time to twist left or right and begin the ground kicking thing again.

If that moment didn't present itself; keep in mind he HAS to be inside the womans guard to do this!!! This is why women even more than men MUST have powerful guard techniques. A simple and easy one (remember our grip strength) is to reach under and crush the testies! Using the hips to move him back then pulling him into a chin jab/tiger claw is also effective. If trained well; the arm locks from there work for them too.

Again, once the hard atemi is in; kick into the get up position; then get up and punt!

Intercourse - behind.

Again, the chothes have to come off. During this you can twist left or right and we again are back to the ground kicking game.

If that moment passed you can always reach between your legs and crush as you turn and use your elbow to get from under him, then again we are back to kicking.

These should be made into drills (golf balls in a sock hooked into your belt works well). Work them as you would any other ground fighting exercise.

Yes; I understand we can create impossible escapes here. 5 guys and a gun to your head for example. But that serves no purpose. Most likely this will be one on one; and we will get to weapons later.

But speaking of weapons... Notice how much better for the women this would be if she had a PPD in these drills???


Subject: RE: INFO
From: Absolute Storm
Date: 22-May-00 | 08:22 AM

Excellent. A very well thought-out post.


Subject: RE: INFO
From: menapace
Date: 22-May-00 | 09:32 AM

MTripp: What are the tiger claw and chin jab? Are they palm strikes? And are they as effective as western boxing punches?


Subject: RE: INFO
From: Fan
Date: 22-May-00 | 10:45 AM

Im interested in your ideas on women's self defense, Mr. Tripp. Im a CO who has worked in lots of sex offender units, and I would like to teach a "rapesafe" type class. Lots of conflicting opinions in both the Law Enforcement circle, and the MA circle in this particular area.

Im particularly interested in how you would structure this. The best DT trainer I ever had just wont teach womens SD anymore out of frustration. Too much to do in too little time. Problems he found were women's attitudes towards violence, attitudes towards men, ability to deal with intimidation. There are many women who would rather be raped than "hurt" another human being(hard for men to believe). There are LOTS of social issues that need to be addressed in this type of training.

How would you address this, or just train those who are "ready" to deal with it?


Subject: RE: INFO
From: MTripp
Date: 22-May-00 | 11:22 AM

To expect a woman; or a man for that matter; to use a fist with success in a combative situation is just foolish. For some highly trained people perhaps. Keep in mind that in the early days of the UFC, when they didn't allow taped hands, lots of highly trained people broke their hands.

The chin jab/tiger claw is a heel hand strike to the jaw followed up with an immediate strike to the eyes. The push back on the chin gets the opponent to lean forward and his push; along with gripping strength, make this a major fight stopper. Fairbairn taught it for years, as did Applegate. I am just carrying on the tradition.

As to what and how to teach. The two books I told you to get in Combatives 10 will help. But getting some women to be willing to hurt someone is going to be rough. You may have to obtain some hard hitting photos of what is left after a rape/murder to make your point.

Clearly pointing out that taking a person's word who is raping you, that they are not going to kill you, is very foolish indeed.

I can go into greater detail if need be.


Subject: RE: INFO
From: Chzog
Date: 22-May-00 | 11:46 AM

Even more great stuff!!!!


Subject: RE: INFO
From: submission studen
Date: 22-May-00 | 05:58 PM

The issue of rape and sex crimes against women and young people is a tough topic to talk about. I have had close friends and relatives that have been assaulted. I was amazed when I accompanied one of these people to a group meeting as to how many people are assaulted. I also found it appaulling that these people had not the slightest (lagitimate),idea of how to defend themselves or even how to avoid situations like that all together. It's hard for me to understand how another human being can not want to defend themselves in the face of rape, maiming or death. I been in some bad places and I've seen some bad things. It's scary. I have two daughters and pray to the Lord that they will have the piece of mind and courage to defend themselves if the situation ever arises. I assure you they will have the knowledge. I'm a firm believer that living with the mental problems after consenting to such stuff is far worse than fighting back. I've seen the results in person. All women and especialy young girls should be taught that fighting for thier dignity is a just cause. An attacker may take your body but never let them take your diginity. Fight back. Get some satisfaction. Most of the time attackers are looking for an easy target. Don't make it easy. Wounds of the flesh will heal. Some wounds of the mind and soul never heal.


Subject: Rape
From: djb
Date: 22-May-00 | 08:40 PM

About a month ago I posted a thread on the OtherGround titled 'how is rape physically possible'. The next day I was banned. I'm still a little peeved about that, but glad I can ask my questions again. I don't think I was insensitive last time, but I'll try and do even better here.

I brought the topic up here, because the people in this forum know much better than the general public the power of the guard position: There are 2 arms and 2 legs available to control the person in the guard. I was trying to ask the question: Can a rapist get enough control in this position, or does the rape succeed because the woman is scared into stopping her resistance?

For example: Orangutans are have opposable big toes, and thus can grasp with their feet just like their hands. If men's feet worked this way, rape on a resisting woman would be possible; in guard position, the rapist would grab woman's ankles with his feet, and control woman's arms with his arms.

This is not possible, so it seems as though a woman would always have feet free to kick with, or arms free to poke eyes with. Do you agree, or am I overlooking something?

If I am right, does that mean that I think that women want to be raped, or deserve it, or cause their own rape? I don't see how that follows. I am suggesting that women are either battered unconscious (in which case they can't resist), or select getting raped rather than beaten AND raped. They stop resisting because of the threat of violence.

If I had a daughter, I would train her in self defense, but also I would try to impress on her my reasons for thinking it desirable for her to struggle even if she is pretty sure she will not be able to escape. I will give my reasons in a future post if there seems to be interest.


Subject: wisdom of distracting rapists with sex talk?
From: djb
Date: 22-May-00 | 08:47 PM

I question whether this is a good idea in a date rape situation, or any potential rape where the attemping-rapist is known to the woman.


Subject: RE: INFO
From: MTripp
Date: 22-May-00 | 08:49 PM

Ok; here is what you are missing, in plain English...

I punch the living shit out of you until you just lay there and then I do what I want.

Or

I choke the living crap out of you until you are senseless and then I do what I want.

Or

I tell you to do everything I say or I will kill you, or your husband, or your child, and you believe me, so you let me do what I want.

Need I go on?

Did I answer your question?

Rape, by defination, is foracable sexual contact. Force is the key concept here. Threat of violence to you or a loved one is force. Showing a weapon is force. Beating/Choking you is force. Saying you will be fired if you don't do this is force.

Thinking better of your actions is not force; neither is the check bouncing.

Let's keep that clear in our heads and fixed in our training programs.


Subject: RE: INFO
From: djb
Date: 22-May-00 | 09:09 PM

What am I missing that I am not able to make this explicit enough?

By my definitions, one must be conscious to resist. If you are unconsious, you have stopped resisting. You didn't WANT to stop resisting, you would start resisting again if you could (maybe you will come to and start to again), but for the period you are unconsious, you are not resisting, and not subject to the argument that 'rape is not possible on (actively? violently? do I need a modifier here?) resisting person'.

If you stop resisting because someone cocks a fist at you, threatens to kill you etc., of course force is being used against you. The fact that a person chooses to not poke someone in the eyes, because she thinks that she will get killed if she does it, to my mind means she stops resisting. It doesn't mean they would not prefer some other circumstances, it just means they physically stop hitting, poking etc. This is not a way-out definition of 'resistance' is it? To me it does not seem so, but others must feel differently, because I think I have accounted for the situations you have described (and I did in the earlier thread I mentioned), but the reaction I get is as if I am using 'resist' in an unusual way. I don't think that I am.


Subject: RE: INFO
From: jayman
Date: 22-May-00 | 11:10 PM

I have to agree with djb on this one.

There are certain legal ramifications as well. It could be implied that the victim wanted sex. "well she kept telling me how much she wanted me" etc,etc.

The physical assult is a given as rape is no less traumatic and physically damaging as getting beaten. Part of the reason women are assulted is due to the fact that they can look like victims, with the exception of those that have taken some legitimate self defense courses - that not only emphasize the physical technique, but instill self confidence and assertiveness.

The only issue I have here is the sex talk. I'm all for playing possum - I think its the correct strategy, but your attacker is either going to get more enraged because your trying to play him for a fool - or he is not going to just rape you once.


Subject: RE: INFO
From: Absolute Storm
Date: 23-May-00 | 04:31 AM

If I were a woman, I'd rather do whatever it took to avoid being raped and worry about how it looked in court later.


Subject: RE: INFO
From: MTripp
Date: 23-May-00 | 07:56 AM

"The only issue I have here is the sex talk. I'm all for playing possum - I think its the correct strategy, but your attacker is either going to get more enraged because your trying to play him for a fool - or he is not going to just rape you once."

This would assume that you are going to get raped after your "sex talk". I reject that assumption.

The "sex talk" moves a person from the concept of beating or choking you into compliance to the "oh, this is going to be easy" mind set.

The "sex talk" covers that you are moving into position to do far more dammange than those "tae-bo" moves that so many "I am woman hear me roar" types think will drop an attacker.

Perhaps you know something I do not; but I am VERY sure that 195lbs of crushing force applied to the eye or the testies will prevent a rape VERY quickly. I know for a FACT that 1/4 inch penatration into the eye; or that kind of crushing force to the balls will shut a person off RIGHT THEN.

To my way of thinking; that is the BEST shot the AVERAGE woman has to end this thing. It is what my wife would do; and it is what I would want her to do.

Now to "resisting".

I think you are missing my point. I can understand the concept of "the alamo". There are things that can happen that prevent defense or demand co-operation with no resistance.

It is my position that following the 4 rules and the principles of personal defense will keep one from facing the "alamo".

But it is not for me, or anyone, to second guess someone who was in that awful situation and did the best they could.

It IS my job to help people avoid, evade, and if all else fails repel such an assault.

That is all I am trying to do.


Subject: RE: INFO
From: jayman
Date: 23-May-00 | 01:04 PM

You know something Mr. Tripp, you really suprise me.

When I wrote the above post, I thought "oh boy, hes going to tear me up for diasagreeing with him", but your response was clear and insightful.

and to think I am a BJJ guy too -lol

thanks for the response.


Subject: RE: INFO
From: cudgel
Date: 23-May-00 | 05:32 PM

I have a couple of small comments.

1. Would somebody PLEASE get women to stop running at night (or in the day) with their damned CD player earphones plugged in? I live in a university town and walk my dog at night on a running path and see this all the time. There really should be a law against this.

2. DJB, I'm not sure where you're going with the resistance thing. There is another response that occurs frequently in rape type situations other than fight or flight - this is panic/shock/near catatonia. A person can be literally paralyzed with fear. This is one area where some of the role playing scenario type training really comes in handy - a woman can hopefully train to avoid paralysis by experiencing close fits to the actual physiological/psychological response and learning to deal with it better.


Subject: RE: INFO
From: nowaydo
Date: 25-May-00 | 01:15 AM

Mr. Tripp,

Great Post!

I made comments about the Rape Prevention and Self Defense class I teach on a post a few weeks ago.

I got slammed because I teach women to fight from the guard. I do teach the "submissive, but deadly" technique to engage the aggressor into a false sense of security and let his guard down.

I teach the "palm-heel" strike, eye jabs, tiger claw to the face and eagle claw(flesh grabs). I also teach to pinch, grab and kick away on the ground, but if that fails applying an armlock(whether it works or not, she's out of the rape position) If the armlock is successful, I teach to snap and kick him away..then run!

Any critics?


Subject: RE: INFO
From: MTripp
Date: 25-May-00 | 06:02 AM

The idea on the armlock out of the guard is to use it to make him pull his arm back.

When a person "pulls back" the combative concept here is to "follow the line of withdraw" to strike him as his "defense" is moving back and can't change motion. It is in essence a free hit.

Bringing the leg ocer chambers it for a powerful head kick. If the arm breaks fine. If not the withdraw opens the face for the boot.


Subject: RE: INFO
From: VinceB
Date: 25-May-00 | 02:16 PM

To illustrate the insanity that goes on..

Last year (or 1998) the Italian Supreme Court overturned a rape conviction because the woman was wearing tight jeans. Their legal opinion was that she must have been cooperative to get the jeans off.

MTripp..a really great thread. I hope it gets read and understood and used by a whole lot of folks.

Thanks,

VinceB


Subject: RE: INFO
From: nowaydo
Date: 25-May-00 | 05:22 PM

Thanks Mr. Tripp,

It's hard to fine an experienced martial artist to give me professional development with my class.

The average martial artist still things "self-defense" for women is like a NHB fight she can't win or a karate spsrring tournament she can win. I know different. I've put in a lot of time and research on the subject.

I know it isn't about winning, but surviving!

The most difficult challenge I have is my Self-defense for women vs weapons. "I didn't come up with the class, I was just told to teach it" I don't think there is a "sure-fire" way, for men or women, yet I have to teach something. I don't teach the fancy joint locks, but to distract, trap, strike and run! Anymore advise?


Subject: RE: INFO
From: MTripp
Date: 26-May-00 | 07:53 AM

Well, the simple point is to look how people like Applegate and Fairbairn felt about the subject. Fairbairn trained more than a few women too.

Unarmed Combat is what you do when your weapon fails or you are so foolish as not to have one.

Unarmed Combat against weapons is darn near impossible; and in most cases is impossible, even for young tough males.

Like it or not the subject of "shall issue" laws is going to come up here. I am of the opinion that it is up to the State to PROVE why someone should NOT be allowed to carry a gun; rather than the current system of the other way around.

In the most serious of cases the handgun has proven itself time and time again as the ONE sure fire way to end the problem, and in almost ALL cases mearly showing the weapon causes the attacker to take flight.

Before we get there, as I know we are going to tred on some silly notions and PC viewpoints (like the million moron march); I suggest getting two books. "More Guns Less Crime" and "The Great Americian Gun Debate".

Let me say here that the best way to handle people bigger, stronger, and in many cases armed; is with a PPD of our own. Where it is legal to carry; the handgun is the ultimate PPD.

I will get into some "last ditch" defenses in the next chapter.


Subject: RE: INFO
From: nowaydo
Date: 26-May-00 | 12:22 PM

Thanks Mr. Tripp,

There is a great story about a town in Florida that held a free gun course for women. It was highly advertised. Result: Violent crimes against women dropped in half. One study shows the success rate of a rape against an arm women was 1%.

But....As we know, the average woman is not going to be armed and if she is...will she be in a position to use it.

So! What would you suggest for me to teach a woman who chooses not to submit to a weapon. Studies show that less than ten percent of people who are shot or stabbed die...also, of those who die, have been shot or stabbed muliple times. Could fighting back be the difference?

What would you teach?


Subject: RE: INFO
From: Fan
Date: 26-May-00 | 12:42 PM

Im glad that this thread has continued fairly well. Part of the problem with this type of format is the limited time involved to get across a great deal of valuable information. Weve all pretty much agreed that this has to be as simple as absolutely possible. I would like to teach a women's self defense course, but putting it together well and giving women good stuff forces you, as an instructor to make a lot of hard decisions.

I would LOVE to have the type of format that my University had-- They had a women's self defense course as a phy ed. 12 weeks 2 hours a week, and a FINAL TEST that counted on your GPA. There is no other format that I think gives you the amount of time to do what you need.. without having to cut things out.


Subject: RE: INFO
From: Fan
Date: 26-May-00 | 12:51 PM

With the time comment having been said, Im toying with the idea of departing from the mainstream and including a little classroom/ group discussion time about sexual assault and womens attitudes towards violence inflicted on them/ attitude towards fighting back.

Ive had the chance to study sex offenders from a number of venues. In college for Criminal Justice we studied sex offenders from a variety of different aspects(investigation, prosecution,counseling), and I have had the opportunity to attend a small group presentation by the regional FBI profiler, and other training opportunities in that area. Ive also worked in corrections for two states, and have dealt with at least a thousand rapists/sex offenders.

What Im trying to get at is that there is a lot of good info on sex offenders that is beyond academic and has practical Tactical value to women on the streets. Women also have a great number of stereotypes regarding rape/assault that simply are not true in the real world.

I know that teaching quick, immediate functional skills is paramount, but would you guys integrate some of the above? How much?


Subject: RE: INFO
From: MTripp
Date: 26-May-00 | 06:16 PM

Very simple;

1. Follow the 4 rules.

2. Follow Coopers Principles of Personal Defense.

3. Train your ass off with something that will end a fight quickly.

4. If threatened run. No matter if they are armed or not; run.

If they won't do that; then may God have mercy on their soul...


Subject: RE: INFO
From: nowaydo
Date: 26-May-00 | 10:31 PM

Thank You again Mr. Tripp!

That was funny...but real!!!


Subject: RE: INFO
From: theincrediblebulk
Date: 27-May-00 | 10:58 PM

"The only issue I have here is the sex talk. I'm all for playing possum - I think its the correct strategy, but your attacker is either going to get more enraged because your trying to play him for a fool - or he is not going to just rape you once."

**** delurking **** The woman doesn't necessarily have to come off like a porno starlet for this strategy to work. Just feigning passivity until the moment is right to strike (or bite) could work too.

Too many people have the attitude that "If you know you are going to be raped, you might as well enjoy it." If a woman pretends that she has this resigned attitude until the time is ripe, it could be very effective, without necessarily giving the rapist the impression that she is playing him.

The fat man has spoken. **** relurking ****


Subject: RE: INFO
From: MTripp
Date: 28-May-00 | 06:12 AM

The reason for the major "porn star" is very simple. It will NEVER have been the reaction this guy got. It is going to be a MAJOR shock to him and his "plan". In short, he is going to lose ALL attacking advantage at the monent as it brings it to a dead stop.

When she attacks; SHE HAS NOW DONE TO HIM WHAT HE WANTED TO DO TO HER! To wit; SURPRIZE ATTACK!!!!

This is the ONLY way to expect an unarmed defense to have a chance of success; it MUST be a suprize. It must also be brutal, ruthless, and effective. But more on that later.

There may be another way to do that. I just don't know of any that work as well.


Subject: RE: INFO
From: Fan
Date: 28-May-00 | 01:52 PM

"The "sex talk" moves a person from the concept of beating or choking you into compliance to the "oh, this is going to be easy" mind set."

This is why I posted my thoughts about including more of the behavioral aspects of sexual assault. There are some types of rapists who are VERY inadequate personalities. They suprise a victim and attack because there is no way they could talk a victim into going away with them, or pick up a woman at a bar for sex. They have spent hours and hours masturbating over this incident with the thought that the woman will eventually be "won over" and realize that this guy is "pretty good".

On the flip side there is a different set of behaviors that are exhibited by some attackers. I have a case study in a text where the woman tried the "sex talk" and got beaten worse for it. "This is for my pleasure, not hers, Fuckkin whore......."

"This is the ONLY way to expect an unarmed defense to have a chance of success; it MUST be a suprize."

This is totally correct, Mr. Tripp. And I suppose it still applies to the sex talk scenario. If it changes the dynamic of the situation, in the first case, it would "relax" the offender, and be a platform for defense. In the second, I believe that there would be the momentary "What the.......", to counterattack from, but that would not be a long period of time. The second situation is statistically less likely to happen. But I think it serves my point, that we need to find a way to study/teach the dynamics of sexual assault.


Subject: RE: INFO
From: MTripp
Date: 28-May-00 | 04:27 PM

Well, the space in time between "I'll do what you want just don't hurt me." and ripping his balls off is quite short indeed.

This of course implies this is not a "slam rape" where she is being assaulted with no chance to talk at all.

In that situation she would just defend herself as best she could. But this is not common and near impossible if a person is alert to the "tells" of such an attack.

In reality 95% of proper rape escape training is on avoidence; awareness, mind set; and evasion. The other 5% is about stopping that man as quickly as you can.

Learning what to teach in that 5% is the true issue here.




For other Mark Tripp entries, please check out:






NOTE: Posted as-of Jun 21, 2000 on Nov 22, 2013 to mirror my old archives - http://stickgrappler.tripod.com/ug/mtcombat11.html.

Mark Tripp - Combatives 10 (Teaching Self-defense)

Mark Tripp's Combatives 10

You are in the Judo forum

Subject: Combatives 10
From: MTripp
Date: 21-May-00 | 07:51 AM

OK; this is short and to the point.

www.humankinetics.com.

Two books: Teaching Self-defense and Attack Proof.

Let me be plain I do not agree with everything in these texts. The first one is WAY too "japanese karate" for simple effective self-defense. For one example.

BUT

They will teach you how to set up and teach a combative program. This is the company that runs the coaching effectiveness programs around the country.

We will need these books as "teaching aids" if you will.

Also it is time to put together our "black knight" suit.

I have struggled greatly with various opinions on this. Others are going to disagree with me; and that is ok. This is simply how I do things. You need to struggle with hou you are going to do things.

To my way of thinking we want to focus the student to attack areas that are going to end the fight quickly. This is eye and instep. Fairbairn felt this way and I have seen nothing from his time to mine that has changed this much.

Secondary targets would be nose, throat/neck, groin, and knee.

The idea of padding the entire head and saying blast away flys in the face of true "atemi-waza" and is simply not good judo. Any more than "tackle him" would be. Both will work for a big strong guy. Odds are it will be that big strong guy trying to hurt us!

Get a boxers "no foul" cup from Ringside; the big expensive one. After all, those are YOUR privates going in there. Get TWO cervical collars from a medical supply outfit. The solid plastic one; and a much larger foam one that will fit over the hard plastic one.

For the head we have found that a motorcycle helmet works fine (make sure it fits AFTER you put the neck stuff on). Cut out "eyes and nose" targets out of sponge and glue them to the face mask. People will learn pretty quick why punching the head isn't a great idea when they bounce a fist off the helmet.

To date I am not happy with the shin/knee/instep material. Some of you will have to experiment and let me know what you think. So far we have found the hockey stuff to be too bulky. We are trying triple padding and I will let you know.

You need to add some padding for an "oopps"; but remind the student that in combatives body/head shots are a waste of time. They are going to need to be VERY accurate if they are going to be effective.

OK; put it together! When next we speak; we will talk about lesson plans; drills; and marketing!


Subject: RE: INFO
From: Chzog
Date: 21-May-00 | 10:32 AM

Ok.....Got to go talk to my fiancal support.....Steve...Steve

::Steve turns and runs going..."not again"::


Subject: RE: INFO
From: Chzog
Date: 21-May-00 | 10:36 AM

Still waiting for the proper use of the guard lesson!! =)


Subject: RE: INFO
From: Pakyon
Date: 27-May-00 | 11:07 PM

ttt


Subject: RE: INFO
From: MTripp
Date: 28-May-00 | 06:07 AM

Combatives 11


Subject: RE: INFO
From: Chzog
Date: 30-May-00 | 11:10 AM

got it! =)




For other Mark Tripp entries, please check out:






NOTE: Posted as-of Jun 21, 2000 on Nov 22, 2013 to mirror my old archives - http://stickgrappler.tripod.com/ug/mtcombat10.html.

Mark Tripp - Combatives 9 (Grip Strength)

Mark Tripp's Combatives 9

You are in the Judo forum

Subject: Combatives 9
From: MTripp
Date: 16-May-00 | 07:17 AM

Well, lacking any evidence of psychic energy; I guess we have to go back to training the hard way.

"Mastery of Hand Strength" by Brookfield. This book is a MUST for any combative program. It forms the core of EVERY combative technique you will ever use.

Should the day ever come that you are fighting for your life; I PROMISE you that you will not be saying you trained your grip strength too much. ESPECIALLY if the only thing between you and death is your hand on his weapon.

More importantly; we must now dispel a major myth of personal assault. To wit; that there will be time to get "set".

Almost EVERY martial art teaches a set position to fire off a given technique. This may be the way you stand; the way your body is to his body; whatever. The grim reality is that wil NEVER happen in a street assault.

With only a 3 to 5 second window; there is no time to set your position. Worse; setting position does NOTHING to stop the other guys attack.

We have to take a principle from Gene LeBell and Wally Jay here, which is: Put them in pain NOW; keep them in pain ALWAYS.

Brad just learned how well that works as he submitted a person MUCH larger and with very strong grappling skills. The simple concept of put them in pain, keep them in pain, allowed him to work his way to a win.

In combatives we have to understand a simple concept. The person who attacks you has a plan. He has prasticed this plan. He is good at this plan AND he moved first so he has the advantage.

Your LIFE depends on interupting his plan (read Bruce Lee on this concept); and taking the advantage by "putting him in pain and keeping him in pain".

How do we do that? If we can't get our feet set striking is out. If we can't chose the position many grappling moves are out. BUT; if we train our hands to have say 195lbs of crushing force; THAT works VERY well.

Think about it; personal assaults are very close encounters. The ability to crush the balls or the windpipe; or gouge out an eye instantly WILL END A FIGHT RIGHT NOW!

Even if you reach down and find a cup; your grip strength will let you grab the cup; pull it out and over, then slam it home a few dozen times!!!

You MUST get on the Captain of Crush program! Get the grippers; throw the bag; pinch grip the barbell plates; make up the softball lifter; etc.

Your time in the weight room should be at least 50% on your grip for a combative program. This is not about looking good; it is about being VERY strong at what will win the fight.

Get the book and get to work!!!

BEWARE: I am NOT responsible for all the things you will break as you get used to your new gripping power!

You'll find out....


Subject: RE: INFO
From: Yeah
Date: 16-May-00 | 11:23 AM

So should we get a grip Mr.Tripp :)


Subject: RE: INFO
From: ReverendTim
Date: 16-May-00 | 11:23 AM

As always, Mr. Tripp, sound and excellent advice.

In my wing chun school, we train the grip every single class. We start every class by training the basic wing chun stance while standing on 2x4 blocks (on their side) and simply holding big rice bags filled with rocks and with handles cut into them...very rough and they toughen the hand while your grip gets stronger. When we train our footwork, we carry these bags...about 1 or 1.5 hours total, depending on the day.

Students gradually progress through heavier and heavier bags, then big buckets filled with rocks, then small cinder blocks, then large cinder blocks, and then these chunks of girder which are carried by having to grasp them in your fingertips...like a pinch. They weigh a good 30 pounds and are only about 5/8" thick...THAT takes a strong, strong grip.

And after about a year, my grip is NOTICABLY stronger. I can just yank people around now if need be. Hoping this'll help out with the judo (first class this Su


Subject: RE: INFO
From: croft
Date: 16-May-00 | 11:45 AM

If I may add something that I think will help: Try a modified Farmer's walk. Take 20-30 pound weights, one in each hand, and hold them by your side BUT NOT RESING ON ANY PART OF YOUR BODY keep the weights putting pressure on your grip. now go walk 2 miles. This develops several muscle groups, but does wonders for hand strength and endurance.

Croft

=^..^=


Subject: RE: INFO
From: cudgel
Date: 16-May-00 | 12:44 PM

I wish those Captains of Crush guys took credit card orders. My wife controls the checkbook and she is a major tightwad when it comes to my training expenditures!

I do the farmer's walk with 95 lbs in each hand, and the grip is the first place I feel it. This is good grip training.


Subject: RE: INFO
From: submission studen
Date: 16-May-00 | 12:52 PM

I must say again, I can not agree more. Every, and I mean every, person that I have met that is good at martial arts, be it wrestling to judo to striking arts, has a better than normal grip. This story is a bit personal but it drives this point home. My grandfather, who studied boxing and wrestling as a kid and Judo and jiu-jitsu after the war, was born with a birth defect in his hand. his right hand was turned complete down flat against his forearm. When he was still a baby his mother worked and massaged and made him use the hand as he got older and got into wrestling and boxing. He kept a rubber ball around at all times and I can't remeber a time when I haven't seen one next to his easy chair at home. To this day,(He's 80 years old), I rank him in the top five for my personal experiance with grip strength. His hand strength is still way above average. I think he lost maybe 7 fights, (Pro, amature and street/bar) in his life and he had many.


Subject: RE: INFO
From: Absolute Storm
Date: 16-May-00 | 03:20 PM

Good piece of advice. A strong grip can be a powerful weapon in its own right, as well as assisting with standard grappling techniques.


Subject: RE: INFO
From: VinceB
Date: 16-May-00 | 03:46 PM

The CoC grippers are great! the #1 will humble most right out of the box. I do as MTripp suggests as well and catch a bag (30 lbs of nickel plated shot in leather. Don't use un-coated lead! and in a leather bag it will last forever) and also catching a steel plate (1/4 inch about 25 lbs) between the thumb and index fingers.

Finger tip pushups are very nice as a finish. Brookfeild's book is a goldmine. follow his advice and what ever you grab will stay grabbed.

Great posts as usual!

vince


Subject: RE: INFO
From: Absolute Storm
Date: 16-May-00 | 04:43 PM

I've just ordered "Mastery of Hand Strength" from amazon.com.


Subject: RE: INFO
From: Bad Brad
Date: 16-May-00 | 11:17 PM

ttt


Subject: RE: INFO
From: SSonnon
Date: 16-May-00 | 11:42 PM

Mark, brilliant as always. You folks must try Russian nailbending!


Subject: RE: INFO
From: MTripp
Date: 17-May-00 | 07:59 AM

Well...

GET THE IRONMIND CATALOG!!!!!

FILLED with excellent material; and when you see the guy close a #3 with TWO FIGNERS you will be humbled!

He then closes a #4!!!!!

They sell nails for the bending stunts; as well as enough material for training to fill your garage!

Get it today!


Subject: RE: INFO
From: Chzog
Date: 17-May-00 | 09:45 AM

Just closed a number 2 all the way last night until it "clicked". I can now close it 5 times with a little help!

2 weeks ago I couldn't close it one time. I still need to buy a number 1. I have the trainer and now the number 2.

I thank coach for getting me into the "Grip strength" exersices. It helped my game alot. Grip fighting is 100X better than what it used to be...once I get a grip, It is very very very difficult to break it now.

Thanks Coach!!

Chris


Subject: RE: INFO
From: Thratomai
Date: 19-May-00 | 03:00 PM

MTripp,
While I agree with you on the effectiveness of gripping power, I must disagree with the statement "if we can't get our feet set striking is out". This is simply not true; especially with vertically descending strikes (and several other concepts). In addition, finger jabs need very little leverage due to the nature of the blow.
Great post though. A strong grip is essential to "upping the odds" when defending oneself.

Respectfully Disagreeing,

-ERic D. Hill

Mu Tau (Modern Hellenic Combat)


Subject: RE: INFO
From: MTripp
Date: 19-May-00 | 04:12 PM

Eric;

Then we are going to disagree and greatly so.

We are not talking about a "duel" where you know the attack is coming. But clearly a suprize assault where it is happening before you have a chance to get set.

If you choose to believe that a strike delivered while off ballance or worse as you are falling has a good chance of ending the fight; more power to you.

I think the concept of having 195lbs plus of crushing power to be a much more sure fire way of ending the fight under the conditions I have described.

We will respectfully disagree on this one.


Subject: RE: INFO
From: socal
Date: 19-May-00 | 06:52 PM

SSonnon: . You folks must try Russian nailbending!

Scott you been holding out on us ;-)!


Subject: RE: INFO
From: SSonnon
Date: 19-May-00 | 06:57 PM

At our seminar! We will HAMMER out the details later, when we can NAIL down a definite time.

:O


Subject: RE: INFO
From: Tony Bananas
Date: 19-May-00 | 07:52 PM

oh no! lol


Subject: RE: INFO
From: socal
Date: 19-May-00 | 08:16 PM

OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH


Subject: RE: INFO
From: MTripp
Date: 19-May-00 | 11:23 PM

O U C H!

Boys go to your room!


Subject: RE: INFO
From: SSonnon
Date: 19-May-00 | 11:23 PM

hehehe


Subject: RE: INFO
From: MACHINE MAY
Date: 19-May-00 | 11:31 PM

Boys dont make me seperate you! I'll turn this car around dammit!


Subject: RE: INFO
From: HopSing
Date: 20-May-00 | 07:09 PM

Great post MTripp!!!


Subject: RE: INFO
From: Chzog
Date: 20-May-00 | 08:31 PM

WOW, Machine my Dad just used to reach into the back seat and clunk me and my brothers heads together. I soon made my first strategic defesense move, I traded seats with my brother and started sitting right behind the drivers seat, in essence "taking his back" .

Man I was so ahead of the times...I was only 6-7 =)




For other Mark Tripp entries, please check out:






NOTE: Posted as-of Jun 21, 2000 on Nov 22, 2013 to mirror my old archives - http://stickgrappler.tripod.com/ug/mtcombat9.html.

Mark Tripp - Combatives 8 (Understanding the Shoot and the "Butt Scoot")

Mark Tripp's Combatives 8

You are in the Judo Q&A Forum:

Subject: Combatives 8
From: MTripp
Date: 10-May-00 | 07:17 AM

Understanding the Shoot and the "Butt Scoot"

I guess some folks are having a problem here; and my students are starting to think some of you are very dense; so lets look at this.

An assault is NOT a duel. You are going to have little or no warning. It will be nothing like the movies or the dojo.

My job is to give you the best chance to end this and keep your life. So here is a very simple question...

If you are attacked from behind what are you going to do?

Now, if you train students with VERY specific methods to deal with specific attacks you are going to have a real problem. Mainily because by the time the student figures out what the exact attack is, the 3 to 5 second window has closed and they are dead.

Thats right; you have 3 to 5 SECONDS to end this thing. You have about ONE SECOND to kill his attack and blast him with yours.

Now, unless you have eyes in the back of your head, you have NO idea how he is attacking, or if he has a weapon. ANY standing turn will keep you in the "kill zone" and you will get blasted.

BUT, if you are taught ONE simple concept; the SECOND you perceive a threat you are going to drop down and turn into a single or a double; NOW you have changed the game.

You do NOT wait for the hold to get on or to see what is what. We have found that the droping dead weight causes the person to lose their grip and you can easily hit the shoot.

UNLESS; you drill this over and over and the dojo "attacker" begins to get used to the technique. DO NOT allow this! The guy on the street is going to have NO idea what is going to happen, and this will work, Drill it!!!

As to the "butt scoot". There are three places where this is VERY important. Lets take the drop and shoot.

If your shot "fails" you can fall to your side and begin kicking the leg of the bad guy. Using the "kick then get up" part of it you can get back to your feet safely.

If you do hit the shot; WHY GET INTO A GROUND GRAPPLING MATCH??? Roll to your side; kick him in the face and get up! Get this; because you have trained to get up this way you will get to your feet MUCH faster than the other guy. Sambo teaches a fallimg man will always attempt to regain ballance. Hence his arms will be away from his head. He will also put them down to get up. Getting in a clean boot to the head shot is a good thing for our side!

Also, keep in mind if you throw him down, stay standing, and kick him in the head; YOU are in trouble. Most places feel that is not defending yourself as the attacker was "down". BUT; if you BOTH are down....

Still; I'd go for a field goal with his head on the get up... but I am not telling you to do that

Finally, you use the but scoot position and kicks from same ANY time you blow a technique. Your throw goes bad (either fails or you both hit the ground); you miss the shoot; your control isn't working, etc; BAIL and start kicking him. Your job is to make this take longer than 3 to 5 seconds. You are screaming "fire" the whole time. HE is the one with the time table here; you only have to stall him until help arrives; OR, you get your PPD into play.

This is the OTHER reason for the Butt Scoot. It frees the hands to get your PPD into this fight.

Advanced students can learn the many Sambo leg hooks and trips from that position; but the basic comcept is to drop turn and shoot from ANY rear assault; and use the butt scoot for any blown technique of that type; as well as after ANY throw where both of you have hit the ground.

Next time; the Guard and its correct use in combatives.


Subject: RE: INFO
From: ILVQLOS
Date: 10-May-00 | 09:17 AM

What is the butt scoot? Can you refer us to any video or book that has a description? Does the Fighter's Notebook show it and if so, what pages? Thank you.


Subject: RE: INFO
From: MTripp
Date: 10-May-00 | 09:20 AM

The Gracies call it "the ground get up". It is a way to defend and kick from the ground as well as using a kick to get up with.

It is in various Sambo and even very old Judo texts. Others will have to tell you where you can find it; I know Renzo goes into it on his tapes; but not sure where else to look.


Subject: RE: INFO
From: Skorzeny
Date: 10-May-00 | 09:47 AM

Pedro Carvalho's first tape series from WMA also has some explanation of how to do a butt scoot in context of a street fight (in this case, you are sitting on a beach minding your own business and somebody decides to jump you - guess this happens a lot in Rio!).

Skorzeny


Subject: RE: INFO
From: Absolute Storm
Date: 10-May-00 | 09:50 AM

Butt scooting is basically sitting on the ground keeping your legs pointing in the direction of your attacker, who may well be standing. You need to be ready to defend against strikes, ready to kick and, above all, ready to stand up from this position.

Your best combative thread yet, MTripp.


Subject: RE: INFO
From: Chzog
Date: 10-May-00 | 10:09 AM

Great stuff! unfortantly your guys are right, somone will overlook this stuff and wind up gettting hurt!


Subject: RE: INFO
From: Sothy
Date: 10-May-00 | 10:28 AM

thanks (starting to understand :o)


Subject: RE: INFO
From: ILVQLOS
Date: 10-May-00 | 10:29 AM

Coach,in the Fighter's Notebook, is the butt scoot the technique called "Standing up" on pages I-26 and I-27?

Can anyone who has the Fighter's notebook tell by Mark's description of the butt scoot if in fact pages I-26 and I-27 is what Coach is calling the butt scoot?


Subject: RE: INFO
From: Chzog
Date: 10-May-00 | 10:38 AM

Mario,

Don't have it in front of me...and coach has the FN as well I'm sure it is...I know its in there. FN does a great job of showing how to kick from the ground.


Subject: RE: INFO
From: Sothy
Date: 10-May-00 | 10:55 AM

definitely some butt scouting going on on I-26/27...not sure if it is elsewhere as well though...


Subject: RE: INFO
From: MTripp
Date: 10-May-00 | 11:19 AM

I'll check and get back;

If so it strengthens my point that it is a MUST have for combative training!


Subject: RE: INFO
From: Tap This
Date: 10-May-00 | 11:52 AM

Great thread Mtripp.

Jason


Subject: RE: INFO
From: Stovall
Date: 10-May-00 | 12:08 PM

This stuff is sage advice. Absolutely fantastic. Anybody got all this saved?


Subject: RE: INFO
From: Tony Bananas
Date: 10-May-00 | 01:06 PM

ttt


Subject: RE: INFO
From: Yeah
Date: 10-May-00 | 01:18 PM

I seen this technique used by an old friend Robert against my cousin when they were fighting. Me and my friends used to have contest to see who was the best fighter in the group. Robert was a small guy 5`5 140ish almost always rushed with a kick to the nuts and ended up going to the ground on his back to defend himself if his kick didnt work. Good little fighter Robert was. I think this is what the Butt scoot is.


Subject: RE: INFO
From: Yeah
Date: 10-May-00 | 01:21 PM

Mr. Tripp, will you be putting out a book or some Vids on these great ideas you have? I think it would be a best seller.


Subject: RE: INFO
From: ILVQLOS
Date: 10-May-00 | 02:24 PM

Yeah,

Coach Tripp has two videos available through John Saylor's Shingitai Jujitsu Assoc. and, Chris Herzog a.k.a. Chzog on this forum has a seminar video of Mark Tripp, vol.1 available through him. That should get you started. BTW Chris, what's up with vol.2?


Subject: RE: INFO
From: Kai Tremeche
Date: 10-May-00 | 03:00 PM

Damn, this is a great thread... Never thought of things this way completely. The butt scoot is what you need to get that PDD out, whether it's a knife, mace or a pistol. So the idea is shoot, bomb, strike if you have to to get away... or bail if you fail to the butt scoot and scream like mad/get your gun...

Damn good thread..

Peace
Kai


Subject: RE: INFO
From: Kai Tremeche
Date: 10-May-00 | 03:20 PM

P.S. I REALLY hope someone's Archiving these.


Subject: RE: INFO
From: Sothy
Date: 10-May-00 | 06:57 PM

actually a book of the: history of judo threads, taking it back threads, combative threads (did I miss one?), would be pretty cool...it would be a book about judo, but not like others...


Subject: RE: INFO
From: RatBastahd
Date: 10-May-00 | 09:51 PM

I have all but 7 saved. waiting for more people to respond. With MTripps permission, I was going to web page it all.


Subject: RE: INFO
From: sharkelephant
Date: 11-May-00 | 12:02 AM

is the butt scoot a hip heist happeneing while you are trying to simultaneously stand up?


Subject: RE: INFO
From: Maxamillion
Date: 11-May-00 | 12:45 AM

Coach Tripp, could you please elaborate a bit more on the "drop and shoot" and on how you recommend positioning yourself from there to being able to kick the perp? Please, just a bit more detail for those of us who have no imagination and are unfamiliar with your techniques?

Max


Subject: RE: INFO
From: MTripp
Date: 11-May-00 | 05:36 AM

Any good book on wrestling will detail the workings of "shooting" single and double legs. As well as the "mets" (skuki nage).

First I would spend a lot of time learning how to get these moves; and finish off these moves.

Once that is learned you will prastice turning into your opponent as you drop; you will be in position (depending on how far you get turned) for the double leg (full turn) single leg (half turn) or the mets (small turn).

I had hoped there would be enough tapes out there of NHB fights to see the butt scoot, but I will try and describe this, ANYONE please jump in and help here.

You are on your side (for this we will say right side). Contact point is your right hip and right hand. Your job is to keep both of your feet between you and the bad guy. Left arm is up to ward off any leaping attempts.

Now keep spinning and kicking him. At this point your top leg (left in this case) will do most of the work. The bottom leg (right in this case) is used to get up. To do this you kick with the right leg as you put the bottom of the left leg on the ground. Without putting the right leg down, you lift your hips and pull your leg back and around and put it flat on the ground too.

You should be in a strong base at this point and sideways to the bad guy. Your right leg is now chambered for a strong kick.

If anyone can make this clearer or add something please do!


Subject: RE: INFO
From: SSonnon
Date: 11-May-00 | 07:42 AM

Great post, Mark.

And just to mention - the "Position of Assurance" as it is called in RMA, detailed by Mark above, is also a preparatory launch to a standing sprint.

Frat.,

ss.


Subject: RE: INFO
From: ILVQLOS
Date: 11-May-00 | 08:06 AM

MTripp, Chzog, or SSonnon

Is the technique in the Fighter's Notebook called "Standing up" on pages I-26 and I-27 what you guys are referring to as the butt scoot or the position of assurance?


Subject: RE: INFO
From: MTripp
Date: 11-May-00 | 08:21 AM

I think so; my copy is at the dojo but I will check today


Subject: RE: INFO
From: Chzog
Date: 11-May-00 | 10:47 AM

Coaches seminar tape 2 will be availble soon!! As will a few others going through them now tpo give them approprpitate titles =) Soon very soon! i Should have the Semianr Vol2 ready by end of next week!


Subject: RE: INFO
From: Yeah
Date: 11-May-00 | 12:48 PM

I think there is something like this in one of your tapes SSonnon. I forget whick one, but I remember seeing it.


Subject: RE: INFO
From: SSonnon
Date: 11-May-00 | 12:59 PM

Yeah,

It is on the introductory tape with Gen. Retuinskih.

Frat.,

ss.


Subject: RE: INFO
From: SSonnon
Date: 11-May-00 | 01:01 PM

Actually, come to think of it, both "shoot n scoot" tactics are presented...


Subject: RE: INFO
From: Stickgrappler
Date: 11-May-00 | 01:50 PM

Kai Tremeche,

i'm on it. http://go.to/stickgrappler - not up yet.


Subject: RE: INFO
From: beau
Date: 11-May-00 | 02:44 PM

great, prectical thread, thanks for sharing!


Subject: RE: INFO
From: ILVQLOS
Date: 12-May-00 | 07:37 AM

Coach, Chzog, or Scott,

Did any of you guys get the chance to look through the Fighter's Notebook and see if I-26/I-27 is what Coach is calling the butt scoot?





For other Mark Tripp entries, please check out:






NOTE: Posted as-of Jun 21, 2000 on Nov 22, 2013 to mirror my old archives - http://stickgrappler.tripod.com/ug/mtcombat8.html.

Mark Tripp - Combatives 7 (Technique selection)

Mark Tripp's Combatives 7

You are in the Judo Q&A Forum:

Subject: Combatives 7
From: MTripp
Date: 08-May-00 | 07:35 AM

OK; technique selection. First; our mantra if you will:

WILL THIS TECHNIQUE WORK AGAINST A BIGGER, STRONGER OPPONENT WHO IS ATTEMPTING TO STOP IT BY ANY MEANS, FAIR OR FOUL?

That must be asked EVERY time we choose a technique.

For beginning level (Ikkyu in Judo; Blue Belt in BJJ/GJJ) YOU are going to have to select 10 techniques... TOPS. Some are a must others are of personal taste ot your body type.

You are going to need:

2 arm strikes

2 leg strikes

2 takedowns

2 "clinches"

2 "submission/restraining" holds

I used to use the words "finishing hold" as that was clearer; but the words could haunt you in court. So I leave it to you to understand that message.

One of the takedowns HAS to be a shoot, either single or double leg. One of the submissions HAS to be the CVR or Carotid Vascular restraint. One of the clinches has to be the Russian Mount (we don't pin people on the street). One of the leg strikes is kicking from the ground (butt scoot) and all that that entails. One of the arm strikes has to be the chin jab/tiger claw.

Now; when used in combination (Ketsugo) you would be stunned to see how many ways 10 techniques work out. Dr. Mance says you can mix 10 techniques into about 10,000 different combinations. At least I think he said that; memory getting bad. I know it was huge!

Lets stay with that; how long would it take you to master 10,000 techniques? Bet it would take longer than learning 10 REAL well!

Now these skills must be mastered! Drilled over and over again as if your life counted on them, and it does.

How hard would you train if you HAD to fight Tank Abbott in 6 weeks? Ever thought that you might have to fight someone like him, with NO warning?

Now, a serious recommendation. Just about everything you need to use to make this selection can be found in "The fighters notebook". Chris was kind enough to buy me one for my birthday and it is simply one of the best works of it's kind I have ever read. BUY IT TODAY!

Now, lets see YOUR list! Your ten core techniques for true "real world" fighting. Lets talk about them.

Then we will show you how to train with them!


Subject: RE: INFO
From: ILVQLOS
Date: 08-May-00 | 08:32 AM

Arm strikes:(1) Uppercut w/fist or w/palm heel. If done w/palm heel add in fingers into eyes.(2)Axe-hand into trachea or any part of neck.

Leg strikes:(1) Foot stomp on top of his foot.(2)Front kick into his shin or roundhouse to side of knee.

Takedowns:(1)Osoto-gari w/crook of elbow clothesline or w/fingers into eyes face push.(2)Double leg takedown w/intention to lift and slam back o/his head into floor

Clinches:(1)Use head butt into face.(2)Hold back of neck and pull head down as smash knee into face/head, or knee into balls.

Submissions:(1)Armpit armlock(waki-gatame) (2)Rear naked choke(mataleao,lionkiller)


Subject: RE: INFO
From: Absolute Storm
Date: 08-May-00 | 09:44 AM

Arm strikes: straight punches, elbow strikes to the face.

Leg strikes: knee to the groin, front kick to the knee (possibly from butt scoot).

Takedowns: double leg takedown, tai otoshi.

Subs: rear naked choke, cross armlock.

Not sure what is meant by clinches. Pin-wise, I'd go for a high mount or a rear mount. When I clinch, I reach both arms underneath my opponent's armpits and grab my own wrist. From here, I headbutt and use knees to the groin whilst looking for a ko soto gake throw.


Subject: RE: INFO
From: MTripp
Date: 08-May-00 | 10:40 AM

ILVQLOS!!!!!!!!!

A freaking plus!!!!!!!

Excellent.

Remember what we do has to "monitor" both our opponent and our area. We have to see what he is doing and what others are doing!


Subject: RE: INFO
From: ILVQLOS
Date: 08-May-00 | 11:19 AM

Thanks Coach. Courtesy of the 2nd Ranger Battalion, Rex Applegate & co., Tripp/Saylor curriculum, Stadion's Basic Instincts of Self defense, Jacques' Street Sambo and assorted street battles that served as "live" theory-testing sessions.


Subject: RE: INFO
From: Absolute Storm
Date: 08-May-00 | 02:57 PM

"WILL THIS TECHNIQUE WORK AGAINST A BIGGER, STRONGER OPPONENT..."

If you're very big and strong, surely you should be thinking about what to do against weaker but more highly skilled fighters, for example, using the ground and pound strategy.


Subject: RE: INFO
From: Sothy
Date: 08-May-00 | 04:56 PM

ILVQLOS, didn't he break the legkick selection criteria? (I mean no butt scout kick?)

also, what exactly is meant by a clinch? (initially I pictured the 'thai' clinch, but now I picture a mount on the ground...)

thanks (I'll pick once I understand :O)


Subject: RE: INFO
From: MTripp
Date: 08-May-00 | 05:21 PM

No because this isn't a contest. Unless the person has a weapon; Don Knots isn't going to assault Tank Abbott.

However, Tank would go after Don...

Clinch as to tie him up (one standing one on the ground) to where you are in control and can monitor.

Yes, just noticed he left out stuff from the butt scoot..

Oh... speaking of Tank; look for post!


Subject: RE: INFO
From: sharkelephant
Date: 08-May-00 | 05:43 PM

why no pinning in the street? Is it because he may have freinds around? I wd think pinning would allow your arms freedom to strike or submit...


Subject: RE: INFO
From: submission studen
Date: 08-May-00 | 06:55 PM

I don't think a "hold down" or "Pin" is in line with MTripp's basic concept of combatives. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the main objective is to hurt some one so you can get away from them. Get them off of you so that you can get to safety. To hold them down would be inviting them to fight more.


Subject: RE: INFO
From: MTripp
Date: 08-May-00 | 07:32 PM

Yes on all counts.

Also most pins do not let you see what he is doing with his hands...

BAD move if he has a hidden weapon.

Or friends rushing to his aid...


Subject: RE: INFO
From: Sothy
Date: 08-May-00 | 07:55 PM

cool, what are my clinch options then?

Armstrikes: jab/cross to nose and elbow to crown of head

Legstrikes: kick from butt scout, and push kick

Takedowns: tai otoshi, and single leg

subs: rear naked and heel hook (or maybe an ankle attack)

clinches: Russian Mount and something else :O) (don't know many clinches/any clinches)...stomping/standing on face of downed opponent?


Subject: RE: INFO
From: MTripp
Date: 08-May-00 | 08:13 PM

Might want to rethink your throw; turning your back on an armed opponent is a no-no.

However if you do it from an outside grip you have no problem.


Subject: RE: INFO
From: Sothy
Date: 08-May-00 | 11:44 PM

I was thinking...wouldn't ko-ouchi/o-ouchi be easier than a single/double?...

I would probably use that and the single then...


Subject: RE: INFO
From: sem572
Date: 09-May-00 | 12:05 AM

2 arm strikes - deep ridge hand (actually forearm) to groin, tiger claw

2 leg strikes - kick from ground, front stomp to knee

2 takedowns - Double leg, ko-uchi gari (or o-soto or ouchi gari, oops, I am cheating!)

2 "clinches" - Russian Mount, "Total" hold down w/knee on stomach

2 "submission/restraining" holds - CVR choke, form of ikkyjo (sp?)


Subject: RE: INFO
From: MTripp
Date: 09-May-00 | 06:31 AM

The "shoot" will have to be learned for reasons that will be clear later; the Ko/O uchi would not work for the situation I have in mind...


Subject: RE: INFO
From: submission studen
Date: 09-May-00 | 08:55 AM

2 arm strikes= (to get some one away) Jabs and straight punches, (to knock someone out or beat them down) Hooks and upper cuts. (Remeber to fight lateraly and use angles)

2 leg strikes= (to get them away) straight kicks in the body, to create space. Round kicks to the legs,(to sweep or knock them off balance.

2 clinches= Wrestlers "head and an arm", or and "Over and under"

2 take downs= (from the clinch) hip toss, or tai otoshi, (from the shot) inside single (headbutt to the groin), "shuck and drag"

2 submissions= there are so many to choose from, I think that education and situation have to be factored into this one. Seeing as most subs would be used as breaks in this mind set. They would be snapped on and followed through with until damage was done, with out regard to fair play.


Subject: RE: INFO
From: Chzog
Date: 09-May-00 | 10:12 AM

2 arm strikes: Palm heel/Tiger claw(eyes..hehehe ask my bro =),throat,5on2..etc)

2 leg strikes:(sorry got 3) knees/stomping kicks/joint kicks

2 takedowns:(O-soto-gari/russian hip throw to rear)

2 "clinches" : Russain mount/Outside 2 on 1

2 "submission/restraining" holds :CVR/ hmmm tough one....I'd rather have a basic knowledge of joint locking principles rather than any one lock/hold. But If i had to choose..i'd use ude-gatame/garami from the russian mount.

Chris


Subject: RE: INFO
From: Yeah
Date: 09-May-00 | 01:54 PM

Eye strikes are great, but there has been some guys like Matt Thorton who believe eye Bounks, I think thats what he call them, wont win a fight for you. I have always been taught different and have used them in fights. I think they work great.


Subject: RE: INFO
From: RatBastahd
Date: 09-May-00 | 06:35 PM

MTripp, Its funny that you used the word Ketsugo. That is what the art I am studying is caled. It is a mix of Ju-Jitsu, Judo, Akido, and Karate. I havent been studying it all that long so my list will be fairly rudimentary. 2 arm strikes: straight arm jab and upper cut/elbow to face. I would also add any strikes to the kidneys.

2 leg strikes: front kick to the groin and thrusting front kick to the knees.

2 takedowns: I have always liked the hip toss and single leg take downs. I worked as a bouncer for a while and would hip toss people to the ground upon occasion. learned it in Basic.

2 "clinches": Not really sure about clinches. but instead I have a couple of akido moves I like. Reverse wrist lock and finger locks to get out of hand chokes or shirt/gi grabs.

2 "submission/restraining" holds: we call it "Japanese Sleeper" everyone else calls it the Rear Nekkid. Learned that from rasslin' when I was a young un'. And the standing arm bar, I think thats what it is called. Opponent is on the ground and you have their wrist secured with your knee on the back of the elbow.

We were talking about this same thing last night at class. The sensei was going over throws and he was doing hip tosses out of every postition. When I mentioned that, he said "You know, I can do alot of throws, but the hip toss is my favorite so I practice it out of every scenario." It got me thinking about learning ten or twelve moves and getting good at it and then just working on them. They have to be practical of course. I see these younger adults who have this idea about jumping spinning kicks and seeing how high they can hit. well, that's kool in the dojo, but what about when Joe scumbag wants yourt lunch money? I am in Martial Arts for two reasons. One is for my son who wanted to get involved in something and I go to help him along. The other is because I work in a prison and want a practical defensive art. Anyways, dave RatBastahd


Subject: RE: INFO
From: Sothy
Date: 09-May-00 | 06:44 PM

just out of question...why the kicks?...some wrestlers/boxers do alright with that combination without throwing kicks (and you are more prone to get taken down with a leg in the air)...just curious, personally I like kicks...


Subject: RE: INFO
From: MTripp
Date: 09-May-00 | 09:55 PM

Keep a person away from you or to set up other attacks


Subject: RE: INFO
From: Tap This
Date: 09-May-00 | 10:16 PM

Well, my turn.

2 Arm strikes: Chain Palms( like the straight blast but with palms), tiger claw to anywhere

2 Leg strikes: kicking from the ground and the front stomp

2 takedowns: Single leg and a duck under

2 clinches: Russian mount and back control, with my knee in his back.

2 submissions: CVR and a "Devil's Daughter", which is where you take your thumb and squeeze the bridge of the nose from behind. If you slip, you extend your thumb into their eye

Now, is the Russian Mount like the Total hold down in the FN?

Jason


Subject: RE: INFO
From: lkfmdc
Date: 09-May-00 | 11:26 PM

Let's see if someone as dumb as I can figure this out? :)

strikes? I'd choose the chin jab and 45 degree hammer fist.

kicks? FORCED by LORD TRIPP to take the butt scoot stomp :) So I'll also choose a side kick to the knee.

Takedowns; double leg and O-Soto Gari

Clinches: Russian mount on ground, doulbe over hook standing (tie up vs striking)

Submissions: Rear naked choke and doulbe wrist lock (arm down Kimura)

did I win? :)


Subject: RE: INFO
From: Absolute Storm
Date: 10-May-00 | 04:30 AM

No. The results are in and it turns out I did. That's right, I was suprised as you are and demanded an immediate recount. Nevertheless, the results came out the same.

( :


Subject: RE: INFO
From: Sothy
Date: 10-May-00 | 10:17 AM

doulbe wrist lock, lkfmdc, isn't that the lock that MFurey makes fun of? (opersonally, it works for me...)


Subject: RE: INFO
From: Chzog
Date: 10-May-00 | 10:34 AM

"Now, is the Russian Mount like the Total hold down in the FN?"

Yes, but with a few varitatoins on the arms, to tie both them out, or to break the arm and still survey the scene.

Chris


Subject: RE: INFO
From: Chzog
Date: 10-May-00 | 10:36 AM

"No. The results are in and it turns out I did. That's right, I was suprised as you are and demanded an immediate recount. Nevertheless, the results came out the same."

I know your just goofing, but There are a few combative "no,no" that you made in your list, I'm sure Coach will address all our "No,No's".


Subject: RE: INFO
From: Sothy
Date: 10-May-00 | 11:01 AM

I guess kata-guruma is out...sigh, it would look so cool on the street...


Subject: RE: INFO
From: Absolute Storm
Date: 10-May-00 | 01:48 PM

Let me guess:

I'm going to be told that punching with the knuckles can break them tai otoshi exposes my back and is therefore too risky in a real fight, the cross armlock invloves ending up on my back, which is dangerous if my opponent has buddies nearby. The standard mount doesn't give enough visibility to observe if my opponent is reaching for a weapon, or if his friends are coming to help, etc.

Sometimes, you have to accept certain compromises in life. Here, the compromise is that, in order to defeat the hypothetical Tank Abbott, I'm going to have to use some of the most powerful tools in my repertoire. If I reduce their effectiveness by modifying them to take into account multiple assailants, weapons etc, I'll may lose a fight to a single, unarmed man and be beaten to a pulp.


Subject: RE: INFO
From: MTripp
Date: 10-May-00 | 04:32 PM

Gee... here is a thought; do any damn thing you like. No skin off my nose.

If you don't like the advice in here don't listen to it and don't read it.

Either eat a bran muffin or ask your Doctor to adjust the dosage of your meds...

Lighten up....


Subject: RE: INFO
From: Absolute Storm
Date: 10-May-00 | 04:47 PM

I didn't say I didn't like the advice given here. Quite the opposite, as I have said before. I just didn't want to give the impression that I hadn't given thought to those areas which may earn me criticism from certain quarters.

Re-reading my earlier post, perhaps it came out a little more aggressively than I had intended. Won't happen again.


Subject: RE: INFO
From: MTripp
Date: 10-May-00 | 06:33 PM

Here is the problem I think you are missing.

You probably do not carry a gun...

If you break your right hand; then have to draw a gun; you have a major problem.

In point of fact I have problems with cops/Co's all the time because I force them to use their baton/flashlight LEFT handed (in most cases).

This is because I want NOTHING in the way of draw and shoot.

It sometimes gets confusing for people to keep in mind that there is more than one kind of combatives and the transition from unarmed to armed is very important.

IF you have a good blast with a fist that works for you; USE IT. I do not, but have other methods that work as well for me.

Take care...


Subject: RE: INFO
From: Sothy
Date: 10-May-00 | 06:52 PM

Brits, like AS generally don't factor in guns...us Canucks don't either (for better of for worse)


Subject: RE: INFO
From: Absolute Storm
Date: 11-May-00 | 04:27 AM

It's true that I'm not factoring in carrying a gun, knife etc. It's not legal in the UK to carry in public ANY weapon (under normal circumstances).


Subject: RE: INFO
From: MTripp
Date: 11-May-00 | 05:38 AM

Even so; there are people who do (police/military) and they study combatives too...

BUT, think about this...

You are running away to your car and now you want to get your keys out to get in and drive away...

But your right hand is broken.....


Subject: RE: INFO
From: Absolute Storm
Date: 11-May-00 | 07:30 AM

I do take potential knuckle damage seriously, but I feel I have conditioned them sufficiently now (through makiwara) to withstand being used for several strikes. Admittedly, this would not be the case for everyone.


Subject: RE: INFO
From: MTripp
Date: 11-May-00 | 08:22 AM

I'm sure you feel that way; I did mine that way too (at 46 I REALLY wish I hadn't).

But I saw a lot of guys in the Early UFC's who did it too and they broke their hands.

Still; we are not the norm. The average person seeking combative training is not going to condition their hands in that manner; and for medical and legal reasons I URGE people not to.


Subject: RE: INFO
From: samboboy
Date: 11-May-00 | 09:44 AM

Ok I will weigh in here

2 arm strikes: Palm strike and elbow. the palm can be thrown from a variety of angles and can be everything from a strike to a pushing striking blow. The elbow is simple to learn and non telegraphing

2 leg strikes: Front push kick, andthai style shin kick.

2 takedowns: Here is where I get controversial, Tani-otoshi and a thai throw where you hold low on the chest in a bear hug and walk the opponent back while you pull him towards you, Ihave used it live and it has worked well.

2 clinches: Easy, duckunder and arm drag.

2 restraints: Kinda a toss up, rear naked or hadake jime and knee on chest which can easily be turned into a Russian mount.


Subject: RE: INFO
From: Chzog
Date: 11-May-00 | 10:23 AM

Storm, Wasn't trying to say those things weren't good, just want everyone to go home safe (the point of combatives).

Now don't take this the wrong way(bad set up I know).But IMHO there may be a slight flaw in your thinking (for combatives) the "Win or loose a fight" mentality (Or possibly just my interptation of what you typed). Win or Loose is not a option, Suviving is,then surving without breaking the laws, then survining without breaking the law and not getting injured in the process. I'm sure Coach will go into this further.

"The standard mount doesn't give enough visibility to observe if my opponent is reaching for a weapon, or if his friends are coming to help, etc."

Why do that to yourself and get booted in the head or better yet stabbed or shot...Work on thse things now so they get stronger.

"Sometimes, you have to accept certain compromises in life. Here, the compromise is that, in order to defeat the hypothetical Tank Abbott, I'm going to have to use some of the most powerful tools in my repertoire."

Right I agree, but make those combative techniqes your strongest so you won't have to compromise.

Just wanted to let you know, we not dogging you but we actuactlly care and want to help.

Chris


Subject: RE: INFO
From: Judoka100
Date: 11-May-00 | 11:14 AM

Just some of my ideas:

Kicks - "Thai" round kick to thigh/knee + front kick to knee/stomach.

Arm Strikes - uppercut and elbow strike for close range, knock out attempt.

Clinches - mount and back mount. Scarf hold OK to tire him out but the not best place to finish from.

Takedowns - double leg and "winding" (makkikomi) throws.

Throws - hip (or Harai goshi) throw or osoto gari:

Subs - naked/gi choke(for fast unconsciousness), juji-gatame (to snap the arm)


Subject: RE: INFO
From: Absolute Storm
Date: 11-May-00 | 11:52 AM

Fair enough, Chzog. I understand what you're saying.

What about you, MTripp. Are you going to give us your own ideal set of techniques?


Subject: RE: INFO
From: Chzog
Date: 11-May-00 | 02:39 PM

"Fair enough, Chzog. I understand what you're saying."

LOL I'm glad you did, I re-read what I worte and was thourghly confused.


Subject: RE: INFO
From: MTripp
Date: 12-May-00 | 08:18 AM

The problem with giving mine is just that; they are mine.

They need to be yours....




For other Mark Tripp entries, please check out:






NOTE: Posted as-of Jun 21, 2000 on Nov 22, 2013 to mirror my old archives - http://stickgrappler.tripod.com/ug/mtcombat7.html.

ShareThis

 
back to top
Stickgrappler's Sojourn of Septillion Steps